Featuring Michael Elliott, Lawrence Crumpton & Miquel Vidal Trilla
Thursday 15 April 2021
ME:
Hello and welcome to Talking Property with CBRE. A podcast in which our team of experts, our clients and industry specialist share insights into the way we live, work and invest through the lens of commercial real estate.
My name is Michael Elliot, and I'm responsible for the Building Optimisation Services on one of CBRE’s key strategic accounts and in this episode we’ll be taking you on a journey through Microsoft HoloLens and how the facilities management sector is being transformed through immersive communication and accelerating the timeline between fault detection and rectification.
I'm pleased to welcome today Lawrence Crumpton, Microsoft’s Mixed Reality Solution and Partners Lead for APAC and from CBRE GWS Miquel Vidal, Head of Mixed, Augmented and Virtual Reality Solutions XRS.
I thought we would kick off by telling our audience a little bit more about yourselves and your history with the HoloLens. So, Lawrence, why don't you start us off.
LC:
Thanks so much - thrilled to be here. You can tell by my accent, even though I'm based in Australia that I was born in the U.S. So I've been in Australia for about 21 years, of which I’ve spent 18 years with Microsoft, but I've been with the HoloLens mixed reality team since just before we launched version one. So I was one of the guys who helped launch here in Australia, New Zealand, China and Japan. I am so thrilled with the work that we've been doing with HoloLens 2, getting into industry and I'm so thrilled to hear that you guys are using it. We met going back almost three years ago, at the tail end of HoloLens One, which is exciting that you know today we’re here doing a podcast.
ME:
Time flies when you're having fun, that's for sure. A great depth of experience being with Microsoft, not only for that amount of time, but equally being there from the beginning of the journey with the HoloLens. Well, thank you again for joining us and I’m excited to hear your thoughts on the topics that we have coming up. And, you know, Miquel, I’ll put the same question out to you. If you could tell us a little bit about your journey, you know and equally your journey with the HoloLens.
MV:
Great, thanks Michael. Yes, my journey started almost three years ago. Three years ago when by pure accident I came out with these great piece of technology which right on the spot, I realised this is going to be a game changer. With my background as a frontline worker with my sort of electronic engineer background and also my years of travelling the world back in the years, I felt this was going to be a radical change for frontline workers and with CBRE it just started the journey. You know, I've been with CBRE for 7-8 years. Initially, from a business perspective as part of the life sciences Innovation and Programme Manager, heading that division. Then you know what started as a bit of a pet project three years ago with HoloLens One, now it's becoming a beast program. To a point now that CBRE are looking very seriously into what we call the XRS, Extended Reality Solutions and under the XRS, we are thinking off that new solution in CBRE GWS with Microsoft HoloLens.
ME:
I think it really hit the nail on the head there about a game changer and very much I think a visionary for being able to see it from the origin there and how it would apply to CBRE and the sector you’re in at the time, so I appreciate that overview as well. I think those are some excellent insights and excited to find out more about the way that you've been utilising within the business - so great.
Well, let's jump straight into it. The first category that I thought would be important for our listeners is around the technology. So for some of our listeners joining us today, they may not have had the opportunity to experience Microsoft HoloLens. So, Lawrence, I thought, I guess, put it simply, in a way, what is the HoloLens and what does it allow users to do?
LC:
Great question. Look, we're really proud of this hardware device. HoloLens is a wearable, completely transparent computer. So if you think about a lot of the paradigms that you have with a computer, multiple users can use it, which is really important if you're thinking about maybe contractors versus full time workers and allowing them to be able to securely share a device. When you think about having computers join your domain may be using a VPN access the physical security of a device combined with things like BitLocker, which is present in Windows 10 Enterprise. All of that is true in HoloLens. So multiple users can use it, shift workers, are using it right now you can enterprise deploy it. But the magic of HoloLens comes into the fact that instead of just being like an AR overlay, it's actually a spatial computer. So you can place holographic three dimensional objects into a shared space. Other people wearing a HoloLens can actually participate with you. They can see that same information presented in the same real-world context to them and what we're doing a lot with mixed reality now at Microsoft is we're extending it beyond just the wearable form factor. So whether you're using Mobile AR are few using IOS or Android. If you're using a HTC Vibe, we launched Microsoft Mesh. You can actually share and collaborate in mixed reality across those devices. And really, what makes a HoloLens special is this computing power is you know it is all hands free, heads up where your eyes and your hands are the input into your computing experience. We're really, really proud of it.
ME:
That's quite an incredible I think development. Seeing how Mesh has really just come to the forefront and the capability, it's going to allow our frontline team to be able to not only immerse themselves within these virtual or mixed reality spaces, but that collaboration aspect where they're able to communicate and collaborate in those environments, I think is going to be taking it to a whole new level so great will really appreciate. Miquel, I think leading from that, you know, I know you’ve been utilising the HoloLens since its release in your view, what is mixed reality and how does it apply to the world of facilities management?
MV:
So, to put it in a few words, the feedback I get the most when I do train our folks, our techs and engineers and you know recently I’ve been doing lots of HoloLens training but the thing I get the most from our frontline workers is ‘wow, this is Tony Stark from the Avengers’. And for those of you old enough to remember its Minority Report, minus Tom Cruise. This is exactly, you know, I know it’s truly challenging to comprehend, but when you put the headsets on you see how you things move across with your hands with your eyes it’s really a very unique experience and for me mixed reality, you know, picking on Lawrence’s answer there is the next wave of computing. Imagine seeing information content fully integrated with the physical world. Ultimately, our vision within XRS within CBRE is around bridging the two worlds and that's a physical and digital. You know, imagine a frontline worker heading to a H-VAC system heading to a pump, heading to a data centre stack or to an HPLC into a lab, put the headsets on and be semi immersive into the holographic world. Providing all the information more importantly, in context, in situ while you still see through the hands free. This is for us, as a business is a paradigm shift in the way we see in the future provide our service to our clients.
ME:
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I think a couple of the key points that you've touched on there is the different areas that this technology applies to. You know how quickly you can see connecting our teams within a plant room facility with mechanical equipment out to data centres. It's pretty incredible to think that this technology allows us to connect our subject matter experts remotely to these areas, which often can be in regional facilities, especially with industrial sectors and data centres. So that's, a big, big step forward to the way that we're able to efficiently manage the operations of these facilities. I think one of the key features or functionalities of the HoloLens is around Remote Assist. So, I think for our users it would be important to kind of unpack what Remote Assist is and how it works. Lawrence, maybe you could give us a little bit of an overview on that feature and functionality.
LC:
Look Microsoft has built HoloLens, I've said its a computer you know, we have lots of first party and third party applications that allow your frontline and field service technicians to be instantly productive. One of them is Remote Assist. A first party application built my Microsoft, and the idea is allowing someone who is skilled but may not be knowledgeable in a problem to be able to instantaneously contact an expert, either in their organisation or in a partner organisation anywhere in the world in real time.
One of the really cool benefits of Remote Assist is the user is using HoloLens or a mobile AR device. So IOS or Android, the remote expert who's supporting them, is using Microsoft Teams. So, you have the benefit of not only the integration and the security, but all of the tools that are built inside of Teams. And the remote expert can now annotate into the physical world where those drawings and annotations and pens and arrows or persistent they can share schematics, which will appear in front of the Remote Assist user. The Remote Assist user can manipulate them, can move them around, you know, can pin them to surfaces. And then, you know more, they can be eyes on the problem. So, imagine me looking through your eyes, seeing exactly what you see and then helping to guide you step by step to the solution.
When we think about Remote Assists there a couple of really cool things about it first. It doesn't have to be a one on one session, right? So Remote Assist, I can have multiple experts geographically distributed around the world helping someone in the field. The other thing is that it allows organisations to follow the sun with their expertise. So, you know, I'm a field expert from Microsoft. I spend a lot of time on the plane since the pandemic. You know, you think, how does that kind of slow you down or hamper your effectiveness? But interestingly, those 8-9-hour flights that I was taking from Australia into the region I don't have to do any more when I'm using Remote Assist with my teammates in the field. So I just go problem, session, solution, problem, session solution and I can do all of that all day from the comfort of my chair saving T&E on flights. So I really do wonder once you know we're all vaccinated and returned to normal, if Microsoft is going to put us on the plane since we managed to prove we're actually able to be super effective from where we are.
ME:
It's an incredible overview, and not only I think of what Remote Assist is able to do, but put in the context of the reality that we now live in. It's you know, I think it's quite interesting, to even compare what this technology is giving us the ability to achieve now only to what we would have had the opportunity to do in the turn of the century and even 20 years ago. We wouldn't even have had the ability to see through the view of a worker on the frontline to be able to support them when it matters most. So, a very, very impressive addition, I think, to the HoloLens and the way that it could be implemented in real world with practical scenarios.
That kind of leads towards my next question Miquel, you mentioned before how this functionality has been able to deliver client solutions through fault detection and rectification, including the case study of AstraZeneca in the pharmaceutical manufacturing sector. Are you able to highlight some of the key business cases and outcomes the HoloLens has delivered for you and your team?
MV:
Yeah, sure I think what Lawrence went through is very clear but I think it’s very important to, and I’ll go back to your question, Michael, but very important to reiterate this is beyond live streaming. People have the concept ‘oh you put the headsets with a highly efficient camera and off you go.’ No. This is on a completely new level. I've been myself a frontline worker. I know what it's like when you're in the middle of something, calling with the phone between your shoulder and your head, pointing with your hand while your hands are full. This is you know, hands free, see through what I believe is the 21st century support and collaboration for our technical folks out there. When you have the layers off, anchoring through arrows, scribble, the way you can share documents, all in situ through OneDrive, all holographically and then you can share the screen, you can share videos and take pictures. This is a completely new level. At any point, you can have up to seven different interaction points between the remote expert and the frontline worker making the whole session much more collaborative than ever before, much more enriched and a bit of fun too, which is very important.
Currently, HoloLens has the Remote Assist, let's be honest it’s the out of the box solution, you can crack on the same day you got the training and you’re ready to go. You don’t need any big digital transformations, it's pretty much on the spot. Yes, it requires training, yes it requires change management but ultimately the way we’re looking at it, it’s too many use cases. Use case number one is what we call Connecting Workers Expertise, which is what Lawrence said, helping our frontline workers to connect to remote experts within CBRE. That's very key for doing a repair maintenance but the second one which again is courtesy of COVID-19 it’s all been around, using the same technology. We use Remote Assist for repair and maintenance but also for the visual inspections, health and safety walk throughs, the folks on the side themselves they said ‘well hold on. We can do the two together, we can do XYZ with this technology, can we do the same but rather with a different output. Which that is basically, can we do asset conditioning, can we do asset surveying, can we do health and safety inspections, can we know walk throughs, offices, you name it - escalations, the answer is yes. Yes, yes, yes to all and that is very, very powerful in the sense which has a huge implications on productivity for remote experts travelling backwards and forwards as Lawrence was alluding that's huge and then on that you have a direct impact on travel costs and then indirectly or directly, that has a huge impact to our carbon footprint and gas emissions. So we are very, very excited. Currently we have already a number of sites and clients all registering interest to develop on the case studies and the ROI is so big, which is, you know, it’s just common sense, particularly as we move into the new normal because, let's be honest as Lawrence says, guess what the business have figured out now that they can do pretty much the same without spending tens of thousands of dollars on travelling. So, are we going to go back travelling as we used to? Probably not. So definitely Microsoft HoloLens and Remote Assist with all four functionalities is going to play a big part in that.
ME:
Yeah, I think there was many hours wasted flying from one region to the other one. Now we do have the ability to connect each other. One of the points that you've raised there is a significant benefit to especially the commercial property sector, is around being able to do those virtual inspections, not having to fly those experts all around the country even doing sustainability inspections on our account. You know, we've got our inspectors up in Brisbane and Sydney and they're flying over to Western Australia and down to Victoria and this technology has the benefits of being able to connect in with those areas and with the field operators so that they could do those inspections remotely without having to generate more CO2 emissions into the atmosphere. But equally the savings for the organisation do not have to fly them and the travel expenses. So, think you've highlighted some really good points there for sure.
One of the key things I think you touched on which I thought we should unpack as well is around the barriers to deploying the HoloLens and the key considerations for our listeners. So, Lawrence, what would you say are some of the biggest hurdles you've come across and is there any common threads that organisations face when looking to deploy the HoloLens within their business?
LC:
Look, fantastic question. You know, I feel fortunate that we are in a completely different universe with HoloLens Two to where we were on HoloLens One. For those of you who've been following mixed reality for a while and especially HoloLens, you might remember Generation One we had something called Dev Kit and then we had a commercial kit and you know, organisations had a mix of both and had no idea what skews were there. When I think about it more broadly, so not just about HoloLens and mixed reality. I have been at Microsoft like I said 18 years I have been in start-ups before Microsoft I can show you any super impressive proof of concept, but it is an order of magnitude, many order magnitudes, harder to actually roll that thing out in production where you have eight hour shifts day after day, getting business benefit from it in a sustainable way.
I feel really fortunate that with HoloLens Two we've gotten it to the point where, literally, if your organisation has already adopted as your active directory, which if you use Microsoft Teams or Office 365 you probably already have. If your organisation already has mobile device management software InTune is what we make by Microsoft, but I know that AirWatch, MobileIron also have platforms. HoloLens becomes almost a defacto out of the box solution for you. HoloLens Two even supports windows autopilot. So, I do think there are two organisational barriers. One is how do you manage and deploy modern devices in your network? And that is just, that encompasses everything from cloud computing to sharing right. And then the second is just run your own journey to find use cases that provide value back into your business.
One of the toughest things to do when you deploy a HoloLens is kind of restrain yourself to the nuts and bolts problem, because now, all of a sudden, I've just given you Harry Potter's magic wand - you can go do anything you always want to kind of focus in on the more interesting things that might not provide the nuts and bolts business benefit back.
Miquel was talking about remote assist how it’s out of the box value. Often we started there because there is some remote expert analogue in every organisation that we work with, but by all means, it's not the ending of the journey, you know, we're doing a lot of work around, if you do a lot of work with CAD drawings or maybe BIM views of Revit views of an environment, this is a perfect device to be able to collaborate.
If you permit me, I'll share just an anecdote internally. Here at Microsoft in Australia, we are finishing off a new smart building in North Sydney. We move into it in a few months, but we've been working on this building for years. We also have been in the middle of a global pandemic for over a year, just over a year. The team, the facility team that's managing this are all based in Singapore, and obviously all the stakeholders are here in Australia. So we've been using HoloLens internally to do project reviews, design reviews, floor reviews, actual walk throughs and the amazing part about it is we're walking through with the team in Singapore in real time, whether we're in the physical space or if I'm here in my living room. I can see the physical space and take a tour with other people, and we're integrating mixed reality HoloLens and the kind of cross platform mobile AR into the excellent employee orientations. So whether you're coming to visit Sydney from overseas or from another state, you'll be able to tour the building, see the facility, see the amenities, understand where your work spaces and all the area around your work space before you actually step foot in the building and that is just a huge change from you know what we were doing literally two years ago in order to familiarise ourselves with new spaces.
ME:
That's, I think, an unreal advancement compared to how you know the traditional fit out development through to fit out phase would be conducted traditionally and I think the common thread that I'm really picking up on there is just the context of this global communication. You know, I think it's very reasonable for ourselves to kind of think of them and not to say silos in the country that we operate or the city that we operate or the area. But thinking about it from the context of global organisations being able to connect and communicate so easily is something that's already so active in this space, which is quite exciting, and I think that plays a lot towards, you know, the Global Workplace Solutions. Miquel, from your experience what are some of the challenges in organisation or clients face when implementing the HoloLens into their operations?
MV:
In our current climate, number one is collaboration and you know the social distance challenge, the travel restrictions and then sites being locked down. So how do we keep up the same or even better, excellent level of services and we can have our subject matter experts from CBRE coming onsite to help our frontline workers which, let's not forget through all this period our frontline workers have being going to work every day while we all work at home. So how we looking after those guys and because historically and I can talk to that as I’ve had first-hand experience, most of our digital transformations are being oriented and focusing on our information workers which is basically us folks working behind a desk, behind a PC. Our frontline workers across the board, not just in CBRE in terms of a fully digital transformation, it hasn’t really occurred yet. Yes, we talk about IOT, yes we talk about tablets, mobile phones but they still use, you know, paperclip board and a pencil and I truly believe again this technology is going to help with that leap of taking into the next generation of workers which what we call within CBRE – the augmented worker.
The augmented worker is the equivalent of IOT for machines in that sense becoming smarter, better connected and more efficient. So the augmented worker is ultimately what we want to provide to our clients to say, ‘hey guys, you know, I understand we have these challenges, even when we move into the new normal hopefully soon, these challenges are going to still be there’ and ultimately, you know our clients, they’re asking us for innovation, they’re asking us for cost reduction, asking us for efficiency, asking us, for now the latest, well not the latest but we almost forgot about it since a pandemic. The latest is gas emissions and CO2. We all have big targets, including CBRE has huge targets, Microsoft, all of them want to be carbon neutral in the next 5-10 years. I was just reading a stat recently from one of our clients where they identified that 80% of the CO2 emissions are being created mainly through our supply chain. So, is this going to save all our problems? Of course. No, it is only scrapping the tip of the iceberg, but clearly it is the right direction.
ME:
Yeah, absolutely and I think many large organisations around the world are starting to set these ambitious goals, but the challenges that they face is being able to visualise it, being able to understand their full end to end business operations around the world and what impacts. How do we measure them? How do we identify them? And I guess there's many benefits to the HoloLens in this sense and data visualisation I think it's a big part of that. So, I guess Lawrence more broadly, how do you see the HoloLens being able to visualise global data and being able to kind of map out those types of big real-world problems?
LC:
You know, it is an area where we are still discovering and learning and as state of the art as things seem, there's still so much more to learn. I'll give you a great example. Go back three years ago, four years ago on HoloLens One, you talk to everyone and the number one thing they would say to you is, I want to walk around in my Excel spreadsheet, which we all laugh now. No one, no one wants to walk around in their Excel spreadsheet, you know we’ve learned this. However, what it actually means isn't that data visualisation isn’t important, it is that there is a different expectation of visual data where it's contextual and its three dimensional, and it’s part of your environment and trying to understand that.
I'll give you a super straight forward one, and then I'll share something a little more nuance. You know, we were working with I'm going to mispronounce it, but I think it's Framatome, which is the French nuclear regulatory body and one of the things that they wanted to know is they have a IOT sensors that are recording the radiation levels inside of a space, and they need to send frontline workers in, protected of course, with Geiger counters in order to remediate dangerous areas, hot spots and one of the things you don't want to do is stand in the hot spot and have a sensor beep after the fact to tell you that your standing in the hot spot. So they use the first generation HoloLens in order to produce these spatial maps that were taking the rules IOT sensors in a shared way to lay out exactly in volume where the radiation was higher so I could one - avoid any potential over exposure and two - I could start to clean a remediate as I use my equipment and physically see, you know, the area's getting cleaner, and I could do that in a group of people, so that's a really obvious example.
But if you start to kind of play that for in terms of data visualisation, there is just not only an overwhelming amount of data out there, I'd like to use the example of The Avengers. So, Miquel talked earlier about a lot of the frontline workers in CBRE saying, ‘hey, this is like the Tony Stark’ example. You know, I love the fact that in order to make these kinds of special effects and these films understandable they condense it all, and then we happen of fall in behind. So, if you think about their original Star Trek in the Communicator, it's no different to the mobile phone that you used today. You know the holograms that you used to see a Minority Report. It's the experience you have in the HoloLens and one of the things that we’re very used to in the Avengers is Tony Stark asking Jarvis a question about something dire and the information being displayed in a way that he can consume, manipulate, filter in real time and I guess the parallel in HoloLens is when we started seeing implementations of user experience. So not the 2D not taking Excel and making Excel now 3D Excel taking a pie chart and making it a cake chart but actually taking the functionalities of what it means to deep dive into data to apply data, filters to data where I have this third dimension this part of it, we get closer to exactly what you see in the Avengers where I see something and I want to uncover it. I just grab it instinctually with my hand, and I uncover more about it or a greater understanding about it. I share it literally by reaching out and handing it to you and now voila it's appeared in your One Drive. All of that, is kind of part of the journey we’re on and discovering what it actually means to visualise data what it means to share data and we have a very powerful tool and the HoloLens to kind of propel us on that journey.
ME:
I think that's a couple of fantastic examples, especially even thinking of the partnership there that you have in France. I think for anyone that's working within the facilities management or health and safety sector, if you're able to utilise this to be mitigating risk it that level, then there's really nothing else that you couldn't fit into a use case for this technology in that type of environment. So, I really appreciate that. I think that's an excellent overview, and it kind of leads to think through to one of the final points, and it would be remiss if me not to ask both of you with your expertise around the future of this technology. So, I thought if you kind of kick-off of Miquel. How do you see the world of facilities management changing through mixed, augmented, and virtual reality?
MV:
Just a disclaimer there, I don't have a crystal ball, but I’ll give it my best shot but if I may, I’ll give you an idea Lawrence with regards the data visualisation. If I may, Michael, I know it’s a bit naughty going from your initial question. But in terms of facility management one of the critical challenges we have is asset management. We all know how poor our asset management, long spreadsheets with the technology like mixed reality HoloLens to be able to capture what we call 3D special reconstruction.
Imagine getting the headsets gazing around, create a 3D representation of your environment good enough to recognise the objects through a narrow networks AI, and then from there, you know, transform that into a digital twin and that digital twin from your desktop and then individual assets that some of that key information like, work all these assets information history that's huge. That's huge in the sense of in which is going to be generating, you know what are called the next phase of asset visualisation through the 3D capsule of visualisation and the twins which to a certain point you can already do with the HoloLens by the way. So sorry I have to plug that in because the thing is important for facilities management. One of the other main functionalities with the device.
ME:
I think that's an excellent point that you brought up there and I see that is probably one of the key points of difference, and changes in their horizon within this sector is even now we look at the facilities management role between 8-8 business hours, where asset management and asset protection is very much a 24/7 operation and you know, there's significant amount of instances where we would see high flow rate alarms occurring after hours. Once you know the building's unoccupied, it's settling in for the evening. It's those types of instances where I can see this technology being able to leverage our expertise maybe in another area around the world where the time zones were able to benefit, or even just the fact that they would be able to remotely interact with that space. To be able to support the teams and isolating some of those incidents before they escalate, I think, is a huge step forward from where we currently are and something that this technology will allow us to do. So, you’ve really highlighted, I think a really key point in a fundamental shift that we're going to see within the FM space in the very near future, that's for sure.
Lawrence there is something that you mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, which you know it couldn't go past is the introduction of Microsoft Mesh, I thought would be great to get from your experience with the HoloLens. How do you see this technology transforming the built world?
LC:
Look, it is a culmination of a multi-year, multi-decade journey we’ve gone on at Microsoft, but HoloLens device holds a lot of promise. We've talked about a lot of scenarios here and along the way. You know, I always think of mixed reality is not just hardware, but the software, tools and platforms that make the hardware where super effective and what we have learned and what our customers are learning are to get the maximum benefit of what this device could do. Some of those problems are really, really hard. Some of those problems are engineering level problems. Some of them are designer level problems I'll give you a fantastic example. If I have a CAD drawing normally to view that CAD data in any meaningful way, I need a CAD workstation. So, this means that I have to have a computer or a device that has the graphics horsepower to be able to render those drawings in a way that I can find them useful. And by virtue, it means that the data in a CAD drawing is locked to a specific class of device. I can't use it on a laptop. I can't use it on a mobile device we built as Microsoft a streaming platform called Remote Render and in practise Remote Render allows you to take, you know, really, really complex geometry. So normally we think in 3D in terms of polygons, so triangles that make up a shape but to take really complex geometry, you know beyond what a mobile device can do, which could be two or 300,000 triangles and extend that up to a billion triangles being rendered in real time. So now we can move away from kind of the generic or general work around size and shape we can get into engineering level fidelity around wiring diagrams and being able to take that entire fidelity of a CAD model and run it really time on the device, stream at real time into a device.
Well, what Microsoft mesh does is unites all this capability. So you think about Remote Render being able to anchor object spatially, whether I am in person with someone else who's using the HoloLens or calling in a remote expert who's somewhere else on another side of the world and be able to tie all of this together so that we, we as first party and developers as third party can unlock the incredible power, collaborative power, fidelity you know, the HoloLens is a 4k device, the fidelity of the device in a way that the applications perform and act as expected. So we’re really, really proud.
One of the things that has seemed to strike the imagination is this idea of holoportation so that, you know, you and I could be co-present. Right now we're using SquadCast, we appear as four little panes on my screen. But imagine we were just sitting around a fire like literally sitting around this fire all four of us talking, turning to each other, we would have a similar conversation. But our experience in having that conversation will differ quite a bit and mesh is the platform, is the developer tool to bring that to mixed reality developers across different devices.
ME:
Your example around sitting around the fire with your friends like you're there, I think, would resonate with many of many of us around the world who have faced confined spaces, so to speak, throughout the last year. So, it's a fantastic view of the way that the world is going to be able to use this technology now and into the future.
So that being said, I just want to thank you both so much. We've been able to take a deeper dive, not only into the technology but the apps and the way that those are applied within our business and the property sector holistically, but equally gain a deeper understanding of the way that this technology is going to be able to change the world and it's a very exciting time, so thank you both. Once again, I really appreciate.
MV:
Thank you for having us.
ME:
Wonderful, and thanks for listening to Talking Property with CBRE. If you enjoyed the show and want to check out our visit cbre.com.au/talking-property or subscribe through Spotify and Apple podcasts, you'll find episodes on place making real estate market outlooks, disruption in the industry and creating resilient assets and much more.
Until next time. Thanks so much for listening.
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